EXCHANGE WITH SSPX FOLLOWER, Part 10 The Success of Vatican II over SSPX

The all-embracing collonnade of St. Peter's Basilica

Anonymous said...

This has taught me one lesson about SSPX and sedevacantists: That sedevacantists are more honest and consistent than SSPX.

SSPX claims to recognize the Pope as the legitimate successor of Peter, only if they consider it profitable for themselves: for their fundraising bonanzas. For ex: in an SSPX priory in New Manila, the priest there is making emotional appeals to the benefactors and laity for money for the purchase of their property. For every P5,000 donation, a donor will receive a Papal Blessing Certificate from Rome. Nothing bad in it really, but you can't lambast an institution at the pulpit and then derive profits from it afterwards by invoking its prestige and honor in front of your benefactors who happen to have some personal attachment to the Bishop of Rome.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

October 1, 2010 9:00 AM

Anonymous said...

there can be no question that the sspx which in not in schism as even admitted by cardinal castrillon hoyos of the pontifical commission Ecclesia Dei,and which is not sedevacantist. ultimately. the sspx will return to Peter's full embrace,presumably after Rome has abandoned the failed policies of Vatican II. something we are convinced must ( and will) happen in God's good time.

it is our considered opinion, however ,that the " state of emergency " at this point, far from having subsided, has become so firmly entrenched in the human element of the church that nothing short of divine intervention can restore holy mother church. since the church is no longer even able to generate the priestly vocation neccessary to provide the faithful with the sacraments. the rise in the number of " priestless parishes" is a grim reminder of this reality. By the way, am not talking of philippines alone. but, WORLD , you sold to sspx a lot of churches already ,PUNKY FREAK hehehe....

October 1, 2010 12:01 PM

Fr. Abe, CRS said...

[there can be no question that the sspx which in not in schism as even admitted by cardinal castrillon hoyos of the pontifical commission Ecclesia Dei,and which is not sedevacantist.]

HA, HA, HA... CARDINAL CASTRILLON HOYOS STATED IT BASED ON THE LIES AND DECEITS OF SSPX OFFICIALS THAT THEY RESPECT AND HONOR THE HOLY FATHER. BUT IF CARDINAL HOYOS WILL READ THE ATTACKS AGAINST THE HOLY FATHER AND THE ECUMENICAL COUNCIL HOW THE SSPX FOLLOWERS ARE BRAGGING THAT THE POPE IN ROME IS IN HERESY THEN THERE WILL BE CONDEMNATIONS INSTEAD.

WE LET CARDINAL HOYOS DEAL WITH SSPX OFFICIALS AND WE DEAL WITH THE SSPX BASTARDS HERE. DEFNITELY CALLING THE POPE HERETICS AND THE COUNCIL NEOMODERNIST WHICH IS INCOMPATIBLE ALLEGEDLY WITH THE CATHOLIC TRADITION IS UNACCEPTABLE TO THE CHURCH OF ROME.

[ultimately. the sspx will return to Peter's full embrace]

HA, HA, HA... YOU ALREADY ADMITTED THAT YOU ARE NOT IN FULL EMBRACE OF PETER. SO THAT MAKES YOU SCHISMATIC. YOU ARE SEPARATED FROM PETER WHILE WE ARE FULLY UNITED WITH PETER AND WE REJECT THE AUTHORITY OF SSPX LEADERS.

[,presumably after Rome has abandoned the failed policies of Vatican II.]

YOU WILL DIE AND ROT IN YOUR COFFIN BUT THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH WILL NOT ABANDON THE SECOND VATICAN COUNCIL. YOU WILL ROT LIKE THE ARIANS AND NESTORIANS BUT THE ROMAN CHURCH WILL NOT BUDGE.

THE VATICAN II IS SUCCESSFUL. IT HAS SUCCESSFULLY IMPLEMENTED ITS DEVELOPMENT IN THE CHURCH WITH VERY MINIMAL OPPOSITION FROM VERY VERY FEW SSPX. THE LITURGY HAS BEEN SIMPLIFIED FROM THE OVERLY CAPRICIOUS ONES PREFERRED BY SSPX. THE PEOPLE ENJOYS THE VERNACULAR IN THE LITURGY WHILE THE SSPX ARE ROTTING LIKE MADE DOGS IN THEIR HATE OF THE POPE AND VATICAN II. HA, HA, HA... WHAT A SUCCESS.

[ something we are convinced must ( and will) happen in God's good time.]

YOU WILL DIE AS DISAPPOINTED AS LEFEBVRE. HA, HA, HA... WILLIAMSON IS ALREADY SENILE AND AGING BUT HE TOO WILL DIE DISAPPOINTED. HE, HE, HE...

[it is our considered opinion, however ,that the " state of emergency " at this point,]

THE CHURCH IS NOT IN THE STATE OF EMERGENCY. THAT VIEW WAS PROPOSED BY LEFEBVRE AS AN ALIBI TO COVER HIS DEMONIC REBELLION AGAINST THE SEE OF PETER. THE PROBLEMS OF THE CHURCH ARE NORMAL SITUATION BECAUSE THERE IS NO SINGLE ERA WHEN THE CHURCH IS NOT CONFRONTED BY TRIALS AND PROBLEMS.

[far from having subsided, has become so firmly entrenched in the human element of the church that nothing short of divine intervention can restore holy mother church.]

IT IS THE SSPX WHICH IS IN NEED OF RESTORATION BECAUSE IT IS CUT OFF FROM THE TREE THAT IS PETER. THAT IS WHY YOUR SOCIETY HAS BECOME SOCIETY OF THE POPELESS AND IS ROTTING. IT NEEDS TO DECEIVE JUST TO GET NEW MEMBERS AND FOLLOWERS.

[since the church is no longer even able to generate the priestly vocation neccessary to provide the faithful with the sacraments.]

HA, HA, HA... THE NUMBER OF SEMINARIANS IN THE U.S. ALONE HAS INCREASED TREMENDOUSLY. THE SAME FOR AFRICA. IT IS A MATTER OF DISTRIBUTION OF THE CLERGY FROM ONE PLACE TO ANOTHER.

LAST NATIONAL CONGRESS OF PHIL. CLERGY, THE FILIPINO PRIESTS ALONE FILLED THE CUNETA ASTRODOME WITH ABOUT 5,000 PRIESTS. HA, HA, HA... THE SSPX ANIMALS ARE LUCKY TO HAVE 10 PRIESTS FOR THE ENTIRE PHILIPPINES.

[the rise in the number of " priestless parishes" is a grim reminder of this reality.]

I STILL HAVE TO SEE A PRIESTLESS PARISH. WHERE? HA, HA, HA...

[By the way, am not talking of philippines alone. but, WORLD , you sold to sspx a lot of churches already ,PUNKY FREAK hehehe....]

HA, HA, HA... YOU ARE FREE TO HALLUCINATE. IT IS NORMAL FOR THE CHURCH TO EXPERIENCE SUCH A THING. WHY DON'T YOU GO TO CARTHAGE IF YOU WILL STILL ENCOUNTER THE SAME NUMBER OF CATHOLICS PRESENT THERE AS IN THE TIME OF ST. CYPRIAN, GO TO HIPPO, TO ANTIOCH, EVEN IN JERUSALEM, CORINTH... HE, HE, HE... THE CHURCH LOOSES SOME BUT WINS MORE.

DON'T FORGET THE FACT THAT EVEN THOUGH THE COUNCIL OF TRENT HAS DECIDED TO COUNTER THE REFORMATION OF EUROPE HIS HOLINESS POPE ST. PIUS V FAILED TO STOP THE CONVERSION TO PROTESTANTISM OF MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF CATHOLICS. IF I WILL BASE MY ASSESSMENT IN YOUR CRITERION THEN THE COUNCIL OF TRENT AND POPE ST. PIUS V ARE FAILURES TOO BECAUSE IT FAILED TO KEEP MILLIONS OF SOULS IN THE CATHOLIC FOLD.

I WILL CHALLENGE YOU: YOUR CORPSE WILL ROT BUT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH SHALL REMAIN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.

ARIUS, NESTORIUS, LUTHER, CALVIN AND LEFEBVRE HAVE ALL DIED BUT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS STILL THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND MUCH MORE. HE, HE, HE... HA, HA, HA...

WHEN EUROPE FAILS TO PRODUCE VOCATIONS THEN AFRICANS AND FILIPINO MISSIONARIES WILL GO THERE TO WIN THE CONTINENT FOR THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. HA, HA, HA... JUST LIKE THIS YEAR. THE DIOCESE OF SORSOGON WHERE I BELONG SENT 15 PRIESTS TO SERVE IN THE UNITED STATES. HA, HA, HA...

October 1, 2010 1:50 PM

Fr. Abe, CRS said...

HA, HA, HA... REALLY? THE SSPX PRIORY IN MANILA IS USING A PAPAL BLESSING CERTIFICATE IN ORDER TO ACQUIRE DONATIONS. HA, HA, HA... SEE... HA, HA, HA...

October 1, 2010 2:17 PM

Allahabad High Court Results| Ayodhya Verdict Results 2010

Ayodhya Verdict Results is announce in Allahabad High court.In front of the court many people are waiting for the Ayodhya results and also for press.IN India both people are live in equally (Hindu and Musilm).

Reults:The land divided in to three parts.One part of land is going to  Ram Janmasthan,another one going to Babri Committee.The third part of land is going to  Nirmohi Akhara.

VATICAN II AND THE PRESERVATION OF LATIN IN THE CHURCH

Old Gregorian Chant Hymnal

Anonymous said...

How about obedience to the Church. Vatican II mandates that "the use of the Latin language...is to be preserved in the Latin rites..." and that "care must be taken to ensure that the faithful may be able to say or sing together in Latin those parts of the Ordinary of the Mass which pertain to them..." You are saying that we must obey the Council but now you are contradicting one of the Council's decrees. I thought you were Vatican II fans but now you are "disobeying" or "criticizing" Vatican II... Vernacular languages are PERMITTED by Vatican II but the contrary is happening now. It seems that the vernacular languages are MANDATED by Vatican II and the Latin language DISCARDED. But when we read Sacrosanctum Concilium it is clearly stated there that we must still USE, PRESERVE, STUDY, BE TAUGHT (by our priests/RE teachers), SAY or SING in LATIN. It is very sad that even our priests and apologists are saying something negative about the Church's use of Latin. I can still remember when we were still young (here in Mindanao, province area) we can understand Latin as if mystically even if we did not have any training on it. We can understand and grasp more the grandeur of the Mass in the Extraordinary Form that when it is in the vernacular. Look at some of our churches: the Mass can now be understood but few Mass goers. During the era of the Tridentine Mass: the Mass in Latin, "very foreign," but greater participation, learning, awe, solemnity, etc.

September 30, 2010 9:20 PM

Fr. Abe, CRS said...

[How about obedience to the Church.]

THE SSPX IS DEFINITELY DISOBEDIENT TO THE POPE AND THE CHURCH. THAT CANNOT BE REFUTED BY GOOBLEDYGOOK REASONING OF THE SSPX SUPPORTERS.

[Vatican II mandates that "the use of the Latin language...is to be preserved in the Latin rites..."]

IT IS PRESERVED IN THE CHURCH.

ALL THE MAJOR DOCUMENTS IN THE CHURCH SUCH AS THE ENCYCLICALS, THE CANON LAW, THE DECREES OF VATICAN II ARE IN LATIN.

THE MASSES OF THE POPE ESPECIALLY THOSE BROADCAST AND AIRED UNIVERSALLY ARE IN LATIN. THERE ARE LATIN MASSES IN THE CATHEDRALS, MONASTERIES, SEMINARIES AND GREGORIAN CHANT IS POPULAR NOW A DAYS.

[and that "care must be taken to ensure that the faithful may be able to say or sing together in Latin those parts of the Ordinary of the Mass which pertain to them..."]

THAT IS NOT A DOGMATIC DECREE BUT A PASTORAL ONE. HA, HA, HA... ISN'T THAT YOUR FAVORITE REASONING? HA, HA, HA...

INDEED, THE CHURCH PRESERVES LATIN AND MANY PEOPLE IN THE CHURCH CAN SING THE GLORIA, SANCTUS AND PATER NOSTER IN LATIN. HOWEVER, IN THE LOCAL SITUATION NOT ALL PARISHES ARE GIFTED WITH MUSIC TEACHER TO TEACH THE GREGORIAN CHANTS AND THE SONGS OF PALESTRINA. THE LOCAL SITUATION CALLS FOR GREATER USE OF THE VERNACULAR. AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.

LATIN WAS FORMERLY A VULGAR LANGUAGE FOR BARBARIANS AND PAGANS SUCH AS OVID, JULIUS CAESAR, ETC. HOWEVER, THE CHURCH ABANDONED GREEK TO FAVOR LATIN FOR PASTORAL REASON. NOW THAT LATIN IS NO LONGER WIDELY USED AS BEFORE IT IS UNPASTORAL TO INSISTS ON A DEAD LANGUAGE IN THE LOCAL LEVEL.

BUT, YOU CANNOT CLAIM THAT LATIN IS TOTALLY ABANDONED. BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF CHURCHES WHEREIN LATIN, GREGORIAN CHANTS, POLYPHONIC SONGS ARE SUNG IN THE CHURCHES, CHAPELS, MONASTERIES AND SEMINARIES. EVEN THE POPULAR EWTN TV WHICH BROADCAST TO ABOUT 500 MILLION PEOPLE PROMOTES LATIN: THE HOLY MASS AND THE GREGORIAN CHANTS AND THE ORATORIOS. THE SSPX ARE NOT DOING THAT.

BESIDES THE MASS OF POPE PAUL VI IS ALSO ORIGINALLY IN LATIN. AND MANY OF US PRIESTS USE IT FROM TIME TO TIME.

[You are saying that we must obey the Council but now you are contradicting one of the Council's decrees.]

WE OBEY THE COUNCIL AND WE DO NOT CONTRADICT IT. THE CONTRADICTION IS EXISTING IN YOUR MIND BECAUSE OF PROBABLY IGNORANCE OF HOW THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH PROMOTES AND PRESERVES LATIN ALL OVER THE WORLD. IN FACT, LATIN IS A REQUIREMENT SUBJECTS IN OUR SEMINARIES AND ECCLESIASTICAL DEGREES. FOR SURE WE HAVE MORE SEMINARIANS AND PRIESTS AND THEOLOGY STUDENTS THAN THE SSPX. HE, HE, HE...

[I thought you were Vatican II fans but now you are "disobeying" or "criticizing" Vatican II...]

YOUR THOUGHTS ARE NOT MY THOUGHTS. SO, BETTER FOR YOU TO ATTUNE YOUR THOUGHTS.

[Vernacular languages are PERMITTED by Vatican II but the contrary is happening now.]

IT IS PERMITTED. AND WHEN IT WAS PERMITTED IT BECAME VERY POPULAR THAT IT SWEPT THE WHOLE WORLD. THERE ARE ALSO CLAMOR FOR LATIN IN THE MASSES AND IN THE SONGS. BUT THE GREAT MAJORITY ARE ALSO LOVING AND ENJOYING THE VERNACULAR.

WHEN IT WAS PERMITTED THEN IT IS PERMISSIBLE AND A GOOD THING TO USE. SO, WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM WITH IT? ANY PROBLEM?

IF YOU WANT TO PRESERVE LATIN THEN TELL YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY AND PARISH TO SPEAK IN LATIN DAILY SO THAT YOUR PARISH PRIEST WILL MAKE IT THE PRIMARY LANGUAGE IN THE MASSES THERE. HA, HA, HA...

[It seems that the vernacular languages are MANDATED by Vatican II and the Latin language DISCARDED.]

LATIN IS NOT DISCARDED. IT SIMPLY NATURALLY DIED OUT AS A LANGUAGE OF THE PEOPLE. IT IS THE NATURAL COURSE OF HISTORY THAT KILLED LATIN NOT THE LITURGY OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. YOU JUST SIMPLY CANNOT ACCEPT THE FACT THAT LATIN HAS FADED AWAY. THAT REALITY IS BEYOND THE CONTROL OF EVERYONE. WHEN ENGLISH FADES LATER ON THE CHURCH WILL ALSO REPLACED IT WITH THE NEW LANGUAGE. THAT IS THE REALITY OF LIFE.

STOP YOUR DELUSIONS IN FAVOR OF REALITY. THE CHURCH PRESERVES LATIN BUT IT IS OF NO AVAIL BECAUSE THE FACT IS THAT LATIN HAS FADED AWAY.

[But when we read Sacrosanctum Concilium it is clearly stated there that we must still USE, PRESERVE, STUDY, BE TAUGHT (by our priests/RE teachers), SAY or SING in LATIN.]

IT IS BEING DONE. HOWEVER, THAT COMMAND IS NOT DOGMATIC BUT PASTORAL. THE VERNACULAR BLEW LATIN AWAY IN THE PRACTICAL LIFE OF THE CHURCH ON THE GRASSROOTS. BUT OFFICIALLY, THE CHURCH STILL EXERTS EFFORTS TO PRESERVE IT.

[It is very sad that even our priests and apologists are saying something negative about the Church's use of Latin.]

EXCUSE ME. I LOVE LATIN MORE THAN YOU. I AM ONE OF THE FEW PRIESTS IN THIS COUNTRY CELEBRATING THE TRIDENTINE LATIN MASS AND TOGHETHER WITH MY BROTHER PRIESTS WE ARE CELEBRATING THE PAULINE MASS IN LATIN. FOR INSTANCE, IN THE DIOCESAN HOUSE FOR THE CLERGY OUR BISHOP, ARTURO M. BASTES, SVD, DD CELEBRATES THE LATIN MASS WITH PRIESTS AND SEMINARIANS WEEKLY IN ORDINARY FORM. THE SAME IN OUR SOMASCAN SEMINARY IN PAMPANGA AND IN TAGAYTAY.

[I can still remember when we were still young (here in Mindanao, province area) we can understand Latin as if mystically even if we did not have any training on it.]

PRAISE THE LORD FOR YOUR MENTAL PROWESS BUT I HOPE YOU WILL ALSO DENY THAT MOST OF THE PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE THE SAME MENTAL ABILITY THAT YOU HAVE. YOU UNDERSTAND IT PROBABLY BECAUSE OF FAMILIARITY WITH THE TEXT BUT NOT REALLY HAVING AN INSTINCTIVE UNDERSTANDING OF ITS GRAMMAR, SYNTAX, EXPRESSIONS AND THE RICHNESS OF ITS EVERY VOCABULARY. STILL YOU WERE VERY MUCH IMPAIRED.

UNLIKE THE MASSES TODAY WHO ARE TRULY UNVEILED TO THE EARS AND THE HEART AND THE MIND OF THE WORSHIPERS.

[We can understand and grasp more the grandeur of the Mass in the Extraordinary Form that when it is in the vernacular.]

O I DOUBT THAT VERY MUCH. I HAVE TALKED TO MANY FORMER ALTAR BOYS WHO ARE NOW OLD. THEY TOLD ME ABOUT THE JOKES THEY WERE DOING WHILE THE PRIESTS WERE CELEBRATING WITH HIS BACK ON THEM. THEY WERE TELLING ME OF OLD PEOPLE JUST RECITING NOVENAS AND ROSARIES DURING CONSECRATIONS AND ALSO SLEEPING BECAUSE OF THE PROLONGED SILENCE.

HAVE YOU HEARD HOW THE YOUNG PEOPLE OF THOSE TIMES JOKED ABOUT 'SAECULA SAECULORUM'? THEY WERE SINGING ON THE STREETS ACCORDING TO MY LOLO: "KOLORUM, KOLORUM... KINULA ANG KOLORUM'. HA, HA, HA... HOW ABOUT THE 'SPIRITUM FACTUM' BEING USED AS A JOKE: "IMPAKTUM, IMPAKTUM...". DO YOU KNOW THAT? HAVE YOU HEARD THAT? IF YOU THINK THAT THE LITURGY OF PRE-VATICAN II WERE ALL GLORY AND BEAUTY YOU ARE OUT OF REALITY. EVEN DURING THE APOSTOLIC TIMES THERE WERE ABUSES.

I HAVE TALKED TO MANY OLD PRIESTS WHO ARE SO HAPPY THAT THE RIGID AND METICULOUS RITE WAS REPLACED BY A MORE SIMPLE ONE. AND THEY ALSO TOLD ME THAT THE RICHLY DECORATED VESTMENTS OF THE PRIESTS SCANDALIZES THE POOR IN THEIR POVERTY AND SIMPLICITY.

AS A YOUNG SEMINARIAN I ALSO INTERVIEWED A LOT OF OLD PRIESTS AND MONSIGNORI, AS WELL AS OLD FOLKS. I ASSURE YOU MORE ARE IN FAVOR OF THE CHANGE. ONLY WHEN I STUDIED IN PHILOSOPHY DID THE SSPX ISSUE CAME TO ME BUT IT WAS NOT A BIG FACTOR FOR ME THEN BECAUSE OUR PEOPLE LOVES THE VERNACULAR MASS.

DON'T JUST LOOK AT THE GRANDEUR ALSO LOOK AT PASTORAL REALITY.

[Look at some of our churches: the Mass can now be understood but few Mass goers.]

HA, HA, HA... YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY LYING HERE. I'VE VISITED SO MANY PLACES OF THE COUNTRY AND EVERYWHERE I GO THE CHURCHES ARE FILLED EVERY SUNDAY. MANY CHURCHES HAVE SEVERAL MASSES IN EVERY PARISH. HA, HA, HA... MAY BE THERE ARE ONLY 1O HOUSES IN YOUR HOMETOWN THAT IS WHY. HE, HE, HE...

THAT IS A COMMON LIE OF THE SSPX. THAT THE CHURCHES ARE GETTING EMPTY. IN EUROPE MAY BE. BUT NOT HERE IN THE PHILIPPINES. I WAS TOLD THAT IN INDONESIA THE FERVOR OF THE PEOPLE IN THE MASS IS SO GREAT THAT WHILE SINGING THEY WERE EVEN CRYING WITH TEARS OF JOY. THE SAME THING IN AFRICA.

THE EMPTINESS OF CHURCHES IN EUROPE IS CAUSED NOT BY VATICAN II BUT BY PORNOGRAPHY, ABORTIONS, HOMOSEXUALITY, DRUGS, VICES, BUSINESS, ETC.

[During the era of the Tridentine Mass: the Mass in Latin, "very foreign," but greater participation, learning, awe, solemnity, etc.]

THAT IS NOT TRUE. THERE WERE ALSO ABUSES BEFORE. THERE WERE PRIESTS ACCORDING TO OUR OLD PRIESTS WHO WERE CUTTING THE PRAYERS OF THE MASS TO MAKE IT SHORT. THE HOMILY WAS ONLY PURE SHOUTING DECLARING THE SINS OF THE PEOPLE AS IF THE ENTIRE ASSEMBLY ARE ALWAYS IN MORTAL SIN.

THERE WERE ALSO PRIESTS IMPREGNATING WOMEN BEFORE AND MOLESTING BOYS. BUT THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THAT THE VICTIMS PREFER TO BE SILENT BECAUSE THERE WERE NO MEDIA THEN TO EXPOSE THE EVIL DONE.

DON'T PRETEND AS IF THERE WERE NO MORTAL SINS DURING THE PRE-VATICAN II CHURCH. EXCUSE ME. SEXUAL, LITURGICAL, ECONOMIC, SOCIAL, POLITICAL ABUSES ARE PRESENT IN THE WORLD OR IN THE CHURCH DURING THE TIME OF POPE PETER, POPE PIUS V [THAT IS WHY THERE WERE REFORMATION THEN DUE TO ABUSES AND SCANDALS] OR PIUS XII OR BENEDICT XVI.

THE CHURCH IS ALWAYS COMPOSED OF SAINTS AND SINNERS FROM THE FIRST CENTURY UNTIL NOW. DON'T TELL ME THAT YOUR ERA IS HOLIER THAN OUR AGE TODAY. THE SINS OF THE WORLD TODAY ARE BROADCASTED BY TV AND RADIO. DURING THOSE TIMES THEY ARE SIMPLY KEPT IN SECRET. PADRE DAMASO IS NOT A VATICAN II PRIEST BUT A PRE-VATICAN II. PHILIPPINE HISTORY CAN ATTESTS TO THE CORRUPTION AND EVIL AND IMMORALITIES PRESENT IN THE CHURCH AND IN THE SOCIETY DURING THE PRE-VATICAN II ERA.

September 30, 2010 10:26 PM

EXCHANGE WITH SSPX FOLLOWER, Part 9 Bro. Ednard Kim la Rosa Refutes Illicit Bishop la Galarreta of SSPX

The Lord Jesus saved St. Peter on the water. The Lord will not allow Peter to be swallowed by the storms and the waves.

Ednard Kim said...

[Bishop de Galarreta's arguments in favour of the doctrinal discussions currently taking place between Rome and the Society of St Pius X. ]

So that formerly EXCOMMUNICATED Bishop de Galaretta is having dialogue with the Rome. Why? Because he knows they have NO CANONICAL STATUS with the Catholic Church despite the fact that pope Benedict XVI removed the excommunication. It is in Rome of the past, the Same Rome of today and the Rome of future that the we look to safeguard the purity of our faith not to Bishop Galaretta who is clearly NO CANONICAL STATUS in the Church.

[this was once argued that there is little hope of any agreement coming out of the discussions, on the grounds that you cannot mix oil and water. If you shake furiously a bottle containing both, the oil and water will mingle for as long as the shaking goes on, but as soon as it stops, the oil and water separate again. It is in their nature. Being lighter, oil is bound to float on top of water.]

That oil is the corrupted teachings of SSPX whch came from Lefebvre who interpreted the tradition apart from the Legitimate Successor of Peter while the water is the Chair of Peter where it is guaranteed that it cannot fall into Heresy (cf Pastor Aeternus). Unless they continue to reject or have some reservation with the Teaching Authority of Vatican II it is impossible for them to enter into FULL COMMUNION with the Catholic Church for an ecumenical council like that of the Second Vatican for “the infallibility promised to the Church is also present in the body of bishops when, together with Peter's successor, they exercise the supreme Magisterium," above all in an Ecumenical Council.” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 891).

[It is likewise in the nature of the true Church's divine doctrine and neo-modernism's humanistic doctrine to be able to mingle but not mix. The "letter" or documents of Vatican II made them mingle, but not even Vatican II's masterpieces of mingling, e.g. "Dignitatis Humanae" on religious liberty, could get the two to mix.]

Diginitates Humanae does not teach RELIGOUS LIBERALISM (a philosophy that a religion is good than the other one) but man’s right to RELGIOUS FREEDOM. In fact the same declaration affirms that “this (the Catholic Church) one true religion subsists in the Catholic and Apostolic Church, to which the Lord Jesus committed the duty of spreading it abroad among all men” ( Dignitates Humanae, paragraph 1) . So you claim on “RELIGOUS LIBERTY” is inaccurate. What do you want to do? Force our separated brethren to enter the Catholic Church and burn them at stake if they do not want to? The fathers of the Council affirm that “This Vatican Council declares that the human person has a right to religious freedom. This freedom means that all men are to be immune from coercion on the part of individuals or of social groups and of any human power, in such wise that no one is to be forced to act in a manner contrary to his own beliefs, whether privately or publicly, whether alone or in association with others, within due limits.” (Dignitates Humanae, paragraph 2)Why did the council declare this so? Because man has always free will even God himself does not force men to love him and that freewill is inviolable. Jesus himself did not even force the people that his flesh is true food and his blood true drink (cf John 6:55) and allowed the people to leave him and “returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him” (John 6:66). If they enter the Catholic Church because of coercive power then their entrance is not true.

If you are so angry with “Dignitates Humanae” you have Lefebvre to thank for that. You see that disobedient bishop rejects that document and claims he did not signed it. But the thing is, HE SIGNED ITS APPROVAL SHEET. On the contrary he claims what he sign is “THE ATTENDANCE SHEET”. Poor Lefebvre, he could not even distinguish what is the difference between “APPROVAL SHEET’ and “ATTENDANCE SHEET”. Whatever he claims, the fact remains HE SIGNED THE APRROVAL SHEET and therefore when the counting for those who approved it, HIS SIGNATURE WAS INCLUDED IN THE COUNT and this is confirmed by the Archive custodian of the Vatican . If you want proof see the previous post of this blog where you can see Lefebvre and Castromayer’s signature

[The aftermath of Vatican II, in accordance with its "spirit", demonstrated this. That "spirit of the Council" is still tearing the Church apart. Benedict XVI's "hermeneutic of continuity" is a recipe for continuing to shake furiously, or should we say resolutely, but the religion of God and the religion of man will still not mix. They still fly apart.]

So it is clear that you DO NOT ACCEPT THE SUPREME AUTHORITY OF THE BISHOP OF ROME! HOW DARE YOU ACCUSE HIM OF “SHAKING THE RELIGION OF GOD AND RELIGION OF MAN”? Excuse me, it is Benedict XVI as successor of Peter and those bishops in communion with has the supreme right to teach and interpret the Sacred Tradition, the writings of the Sacred Scriptures and the teaching declaration of the Church. Not Lefebvre and definitely not Bishop de Galaretta or the other three disobedient bishops who were ordained with him. Benedict XVI is not shaking the religion of man and religion of God because he is the visible head of the Church which Christ Built. We look to him as the protector of the purity of our Apostolic faith and not Lefebvre, Castromayer, de Galaretta, Williamson or Fellay because they are NOT IN COMMUNION WITH HIM.

[Then why did some quote Bishop de Galarreta favouring the discussions ? For two reasons. Firstly, as to the discussions' main effect, in none of his arguments - read them carefully - did he expect or hope that oil and water can be made to mix. On the contrary, when he said that he looked forward to the discussions being terminated in the spring of next year, he surely implied that the shaking of the bottle should not go on indefinitely, especially if that were to foster in anybody the illusion that oil and water can eventually be made to mix.]

If Bishop de Galaretta hopes that in spring the talks with SSPX and Rome would be discontinued fine. If the SSPX does not want to accept Vatican II so be it. Rome is still Rome without them and that Diocese where Peter shed his blood shall not be overcome with the minions of hell. SSPX on the other hand by stepping out from the Church by rejecting her magisterial authority in Vatican II will be easily swept away by the errors of heresy just like the Old Catholic Church in Utretch who rejected papal infallibility in Vatican I. As long as the SSPX lacks to the trust of Christ to Peter they will lost the orthodoxy of the faith.

[ Secondly, all of his arguments mentioned side-effects of the discussions, whereby the contacts which they bring about between Rome and the SSPX act as anti-freeze, both in the radiator of Romans wishing to freeze off the SSPX, and in the radiator of SSPX wishing to freeze off Rome.]

If Lefebvre had only honour his promises with the Holy See then there is no need for such argument but he broke it so I won’t be surprise if these 4 bishops will do the same if they ever reach an agreement with Rome. We look to the Pope of Rome as our protector of our tradition not to the SSPX

[others has the honour of agreeing with his colleague that Rome-SSPX contacts are good for the Universal Church, so long as there is no question of the SSPX failing in its Providential mission of helping to guard from today's Rome the Deposit of the Faith for when tomorrow's Rome will come back to its Catholic senses. "Heaven and earth shall pass away", says Our Lord, "but my words shall not pass away" (Lk.XXI,33).]

The Pope wants them back because he values the unity. But the thing it is they who are out of Rome. Are you saying that the Rome of today has fallen to heresy? Excuse me, the Rome of yesterday, today and tomorrow will be the SAME. And Rome shall never fall into heresy “because this See of St. Peter ALWAYS REMAINS UNBLEMISHED BY ANY ERROR, in accordance with the divine promise of our Lord and Savior to the prince of his disciples: I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again, strengthen your brethren”. (Vatican I, Pastor Aeternus) This promise of our Lord has “Never passed away” even up to the present time. SSPX needs the Bishop of Rome to obtain the purity of the faith, not the other way around.

[Kyrie eleison. ]

Will you stop that “Kyrie eleison” because it only shows how cynical and hypocrite you are. begging for God’s mercy but you are attacking the Representative of his Son. DO you know what Jesus said to his disciples when they are being rejected? "He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me." (Luke 10:16) That applies to the Successor of Peter and the Successor of the Apostles who are in communion with him but not to the SSPX bishops.

September 30, 2010 8:40 PM

EXCHANGE WITH SSPX FOLLOWER, Part 8 The SSPX Politics of Treachery

His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI looks lovingly at the representative of the Universal Church gathered in St. Peter's Square.

Anonymous said...

While the Rome-Society of St Pius X discussions are, by accounts from both sides, running into a doctrinal brick wall, together with a rumour from Rome spell danger for traditionalist Catholics. That danger is a political deal which would simply go round the side of the doctrinal blockage. Politics threaten to circumvent doctrine.

a few months ago a large proportion of Catholics attending SSPX Mass centres are hoping and waiting for some agreement to come out of the discussions. If - repeat, if -- this is true, it is very serious. Such Catholics may get full marks for wishing not to be cut off from what appears to be Rome, but they get low marks for not grasping that as long as the discussions remain doctrinal, there is no way in which the neo-modernist teaching of Vatican II can be reconciled with the Catholic doctrine of the true Church. Such Catholics may venerate and love Archbishop Lefebvre . They had best wake up if they are not in one way or another to fall into the arms of the neo-modernist Romans.especially to BASTARDS like you hehehe...

Agreement in front of doctrine means politics before religion, unity before truth, man before God. God before man means truth before unity, religion before politics and doctrine being more important than any non-doctrinal agreement. Only dreamers could not foresee the Rome-SSPX discussions running into a doctrinal brick wall. Only politicians can wish for any non-doctrinal agreement to come out of them.

Alas, to all appearances Benedict XVI sincerely believes in the Newchurch of Vatican II which is to unite in its bosom all men absolutely, regardless of whether they believe or not in the one true doctrine of the Faith. Therefore he sincerely wishes to gather in the SSPX as well - and he does not normally have too much longer to live ! So the blockage of doctrinal discussions should not unduly worry him. He must be looking to cut a political deal with the SSPX, in order to unite it with the rest of the Newchurch. It follows that he must ask of the SSPX neither too much, or it would refuse the deal, nor too little, because then the rest of the Newchurch would rise up in protest.

The rumour from Rome is precisely that he is thinking of a "Motu Proprio" which would accept the SSPX "back into the Church" once and for all, yet require from the SSPX no explicit acceptance of Vatican II or the New Mass, but only, for instance, the acceptance of John-Paul II's 1992 "Catechism of the Catholic Church", which is substantially modernist but in a quiet way. Thus the SSPX would not appear to its followers to be accepting the Council or the New Mass, yet it would be softly, softly, beginning to go along with the substance of neo-modernism.

Kyrie eleison.

September 30, 2010 12:20 PM

Fr. Abe, CRS said...

[While the Rome-Society of St Pius X discussions are, by accounts from both sides, running into a doctrinal brick wall, together with a rumour from Rome spell danger for traditionalist Catholics.]

THE SSPX DIDN'T RUN INTO A BRICK WALL. IT SIMPLY BANGED ITS HEAD ON A ROCK CALLED 'PETROS'. LUCIFER AND LEFEBVRE COMBINED WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DESTROY THIS ROCK.

[That danger is a political deal which would simply go round the side of the doctrinal blockage. Politics threaten to circumvent doctrine.]

WE ARE NOT AFTER POLITICAL DEAL WITH ANYONE MUCH MORE WITH SSPX. THE CATHOLIC CHURCH CONFRONTED AND FOUGHT WITH KINGS AND THE POWERS OF THIS WORLD AND IT NEVER CAPITULATE. NOT WITH THE PAGAN ROME OF NERO, NOT WITH NAPOLEON, NOT WITH ELIZABETH 1 OF ENGLAND, NOT WITH THE TSARS OF RUSSIA, NOT WITH THE SOVIETS AND ESPECIALLY NOT WITH THE SSPX BASTARDS. He, he, he...

[a few months ago a large proportion of Catholics attending SSPX Mass centres are hoping and waiting for some agreement to come out of the discussions.]

LARGE? I THINK YOU ARE BLIND SO THAT YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IS LARGE AND WHAT IS MEDIUM AND WHAT IS SMALL. HA, HA, HA... WHEN WE TALK OF LARGE FOR THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HERE IN THE PHILIPPINES IT IS THE GATHERING OF MININUM 2 MILLION BAPTIZED CATHOLIC IN THE LUNETA GRANDSTAND IN A NOVUS ORDO MASS. NOT IN YOUR HYPOCRITICAL, BORING MASS FULL OF EXPENSIVE CLOTHES JUST TO COVER YOUR SCHISMS AND HERESIES. YOUR PRIESTS ARE LIKE DEMONS PRETENDING TO BE ANGELS OF LIGHT. HA, HA, HA...

[If - repeat, if -- this is true, it is very serious.]

HA, HA, HA... AS FAR AS WE ARE CONCERNED MORE AND MORE OF SSPX PRIESTS AND FOLLOWERS ARE RETURNING TO THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH AFTER SEEING THE HYPOCRISY INSIDE THE SSPX. THEY COULD FEEL THE EMPTINESS OF SUCH A POPELESS SOCIETY.

THEIR LARGEST MASS I THINK WILL BE VERY HAPPY TO GATHER AROUND 200 PEOPLE. HA, HA, HA... SOME OF THEM ARE SIMPLY DECEIVED THAT THEY ARE GOING TO A ROMAN CATHOLIC MASS. HA, HA, HA...

[Such Catholics may get full marks for wishing not to be cut off from what appears to be Rome, but they get low marks for not grasping that as long as the discussions remain doctrinal, there is no way in which the neo-modernist teaching of Vatican II can be reconciled with the Catholic doctrine of the true Church.]

THERE IS ONLY ONE ROME AND THAT ROME IS THE TRUE ROME. WHAT APPEARS TO BE ROMAN ARE THE ILLICIT PRIESTS OF THE SSPX WHO ARE FAKES AND LITURGICAL BASTARDS. SONS OF THE WACKY OLD FOOL NAMED LEFEBVRE.

[Such Catholics may venerate and love Archbishop Lefebvre .]

THE TOMB OF JOHN PAUL THE GREAT IS VISITED BY ABOUT 20,000 PEOPLE A DAY AND THOUSANDS ALSO VISIT THAT OF BLESSED JOHN XXIII BUT THE TOMB OF LEFEBVRE IS A GARBAGE IN COMPARISON. SURELY, THE CALL OF SANTO SUBITO IS UNIVERSAL FOR JOHN PAUL II AND SILENT FOR THE WACKY OLD FOOL, LEFEBVRE.

[They had best wake up if they are not in one way or another to fall into the arms of the neo-modernist Romans.especially to BASTARDS like you hehehe...]

HA, HA, HA... WE ARE AWAKE AND SINCE WE ARE AWAKE WE WILL NOT JOIN ANIMALS LIKE YOU. YOU CAN JOIN LEFEBVRE IN HELL WHEN YOU AND YOUR MEMBERS PASS AWAY BUT WE ARE NOT FOOLS TO JOIN IN YOUR MADNESS.

[Agreement in front of doctrine means politics before religion,]

WELL IF THAT IS THE CASE THEN THE FACT THAT THE SSPX APOINTED A REPRESENTATIVE IN THE DIALOGUE WITH THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH IS A PROOF OF YOUR DOCTRINAL HYPOCRISY AND POLITICAL STRATEGY. IT IS ALSO VERY STRIKING THAT BERNARD FELLAY CALLS OUR POPE 'HOLY FATHER'. HA, HA, HA... BY YOUR STANDARD YOUR SSPX AND YOUR LEADERSHIP ARE COMMITTING POLITICAL MOCKERY OF YOUR OWN POSITION.

[unity before truth, man before God.]

NICE WORDS BUT THE DEPOSIT OF FAITH, THE BODY OF TRUTH HANDED ON BY CHRIST IS ENTRUSTED TO PETER AND NOT TO LEFEBVRE, YOUR WACKY OLD FOOL. THUS, WE PARAPHRASE THE WORDS OF ST. THOMAS MORE, "WE MAY BE LOYAL TO THE ARCHBISHOP BUT GOD FIRST!"

WE HAVE CHOSE THE OFFICIAL REPRESENTATIVE OF GOD OVER A WACKY OLD FOOL.

[God before man means truth before unity,]

THE TRUTH OF FAITH IS IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND NOT IN THE SOCIETY OF THE POPELESS WHERE YOU BELONG. HE, HE, HE...

[religion before politics]

YOUR WILLIAMSON IS A STUPID POLITICIAN WHILE YOUR GALARRETA IS A SERPENTINE POLITICIAN. HA, HA, HA... IMAGINE, SPEAKING OF OIL AND WATER. HA, HA, HA...

[and doctrine being more important than any non-doctrinal agreement.]

WE DOT WISH TO HAVE ANY NON-DOCTRINAL AGREEMENT WITH YOU. WE CAN LIVE WITHOUT YOU BUT YOU CANNOT LIVE WITHOUT US. YOU ARE PARASITES WHO ARE SUCKING BLOOD FROM US WHILE ATTACKING YOUR OWN SOURCE OF LIVING.

[Only dreamers could not foresee the Rome-SSPX discussions running into a doctrinal brick wall.]

IT IS FORESEEN. HOWEVER, OUR POPES ARE VISIONARIES WHILE YOUR LEADERS ARE VENOMOUS POLITICIANS. ONE TIME THEY ATTACK AND ONE TIME THEY PLEAD MERCY. ONCE MERCY IS GIVEN THEN THEY ATTACK. HA, HA, HA... YOU EASILY LEARNED THE ART OF DIPLOMACY AND POLITICS.

[ Only politicians can wish for any non-doctrinal agreement to come out of them.]

THANK GOD WE DO NOT WISH ANYTHING FROM YOU.

[Alas, to all appearances Benedict XVI sincerely believes in the Newchurch of Vatican II]

THE CHURCH OF BENEDICT XVI IS NOT NEW BUT OLD. IN FACT, HE ADVOCATES THE THEOLOGY OF RETURN TO THE SOURCES SUCH AS THE PATRISTIC STUDIES. UNLIKE YOUR WACKY OLD FOOL WHOSE CONCEPT OF THE CHURCH IS ONLY FROM 16TH CENTURY.

[which is to unite in its bosom all men absolutely, regardless of whether they believe or not in the one true doctrine of the Faith.]

HA, HA, HA... THIS IS THE MOST STUPID ARGUMENT I'VE EVER HEARD FROM AN SSPX. HA, HA, HA...

DEFINITELY THE POPE DO NOT ACCEPT ALL MEN INTO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WITHOUT BELIEVING THE ONE TRUE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH. HA, HA, HA... THE MOSLEMS AND THE PROTESTANTS AND THE ANGLICANS BECOMING ROMAN CATHOLICS ARE BEING GIVEN THOROUGH CATICHESIS AND ARE BEING BAPTIZED INTO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.

THE SSPX IS USELESS AND STERILE IN BRINGING PEOPLE OF OTHER FAITH INTO THE CATHOLIC FOLD. LIKE LUCIFER... LEFEBVRE IS ONLY CONCERNED ABOUT HIS REBELLION BUT NOT ON CONVERTING SOULS TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.

THOSE WHO ARE CONVERTING THROUGH APOLOGETIC WORKS THE CULT MEMBERS HERE IN THE PHILIPPINES AND IN THE UNITED STATES ARE THE CATHOLIC APOLOGISTS BELONGING TO THE VATICAN II FAITHFUL.

[Therefore he sincerely wishes to gather in the SSPX as well - and he does not normally have too much longer to live !]

HA, HA, HA... WHEN THE POPE DIES ANOTHER POPE WILL LIVE. AND THAT POPE WILL NOT BE IN NEED OF SSPX TO REALIZE HIS PASTORAL PLAN FOR THE CHURCH. THE SSPX IS ALREADY LIKE A ROTTEN CORPSE . MORE AND MORE CATHOLICS ARE COMING OUT IN THE OPEN TO DENOUNCE ITS EVIL AND HYPOCRISY.

[So the blockage of doctrinal discussions should not unduly worry him.]

THE POPE IS NOT WORRY OF ANYONE OR ANYTHING ELSE. MUCH MORE THE SSPX. HIS VIRTUE OF HOPE IS TOO STRONG THAT THE ENEMIES OF THE FAITH ARE BEING SURPRISED BY HIS STEADFAST SPIRIT. THE MORE HE GETS OLD THE MORE HIS WISDOM SHINES. UNLIKE LEFEBVFRE AND WILLIAMSON, THE MORE THEY GET OLD THE MORE THEY BECOME SENILE AND FOOLISH.

[He must be looking to cut a political deal with the SSPX, in order to unite it with the rest of the Newchurch.]

HA, HA, HA... YOU ARE FREE TO HALLUCINATE.

[It follows that he must ask of the SSPX neither too much, or it would refuse the deal, nor too little, because then the rest of the Newchurch would rise up in protest.]

HA, HA, HA... YOU HAVE FED UP YOURSELF WITH SO MUCH CONSPIRACY THEORIES THAT YOUR OWN LIES HAVE SUNK DEEP WITHIN YOUR CONSCIOUSNESS. YOU ARE SO CONVINCED OF YOUR OWN INVENTED LIES. HA, HA, HA...

[The rumour from Rome is precisely that he is thinking of a "Motu Proprio" which would accept the SSPX "back into the Church" once and for all,]

HA, HA, HA... YOU KNOW THERE ARE ANOTHER TERM FOR YOUR CONSPIRACY THEORIES: RUMORS AND GOSSIPS. HA, HA, HA... THAT IS HOW CHEAP YOUR SSPX IS.

THERE IS FREEDOM OF DELUSION IN THE WORLD AND I'M GLAD THAT YOU ARE UPHOLDING IT. HA, HA, HA...

MY SUGGESTION IS THAT YOU STOP WAITING FOR THAT MOTU PROPRIO BUT INSTEAD WAIT FOR 'MULTO PROPRIO' OF WILLIAMSON. HA, HA, HA...

[yet require from the SSPX no explicit acceptance of Vatican II or the New Mass, but only, for instance, the acceptance of John-Paul II's 1992 "Catechism of the Catholic Church", which is substantially modernist but in a quiet way.]

WELL, IF YOU DON'T ACCEPT VATICAN II DON'T ACCEPT IT AT ALL. AND THE NEW MASS WILL BE BETTER LEFT AS IT IS FREE FROM THE PRESENCE OF LITURGICAL FOOLS LIKE THE SSPX WHO VIEWS EVERYTHING AS EVIL EXCEPT THOSE THEY ACCEPT.

I HAVE SEVERAL COPIES OF CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND YET NONE OF THEM EVER SPEAKS OR UTTER A SOUND. IT IS SURPRISING THAT YOU REFER TO IT AS MODERNIST IN A QUIET WAY. HA, HA, HA...

[Thus the SSPX would not appear to its followers to be accepting the Council or the New Mass, yet it would be softly, softly, beginning to go along with the substance of neo-modernism.]

HA, HA, HA... YOU CAN ALL WALLOW INTO THE OLD SYSTEM OF REBELLION STARTED BY LUCIFER... THE OLD... THE ANCIENT DRAGON WHO DECEIVED THE WORLD AND WHO DECEIVED YOUR FOUNDER LEFEBVRE WHO IN TURNED DECEIVED YOU.

[Kyrie eleison.]

KYRIE ELEISON. THE LITURGY IS NOT EXCLUSIVELY LATIN. ONLY FOOLS TEACHES 'LATIN ONLY'.

September 30, 2010 8:22 PM

DEFENDING THE BLESSEDNESS OF MARY AND THE UNIQUENESS OF HER FAITH AGAINST A DATING DAAN MEMBER, Part 3 Repy of Bro. Marwil Llasos, O.P.

Mary of Nazareth - the Mother of God - the Mother of the Lord Jesus Christ

Bro. Marwil N. Llasos said...

JC of MCGI said … Faith and blessedness of Mary is not questionable. It is your (RCC) doctrine regarding Mary is refutable.

You said: 1. Mary is the most blessed than other apostles and/or members of the church.

Bible says: (Luk 11:28) But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

[It is your understanding of the verse that is LAUGHABLE. In Luke 11:28, does Jesus mean that His Mary did not hear the word of God and keep it? There is nothing of that sort. It exists only in your mind.

In fact, in Luke 11:28 elevates Mary’s blessedness not because of her being Jesus mother but because she heard the word of God and keep it. “And Mary said, “Behold, I am the servant of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word” (Lk. 1:38).]

JC of MCGI said … None in the Bible “most blessed” has been said to anyone, except one:

(Psa 21:6) For thou hast made him most blessed for ever: thou hast made him exceeding glad with thy countenance.

[We have already answered this. At para ka nang sirang plaka kasi wala nang bago sa argumento mo. You are setting a straw argument here. Fr. Abe never said that Mary is “most blessed” including God. No, no, no. There was never any statement of that sort. You are just barking at the wrong tree. If you are shadowboxing with an invisible opponent, just go ahead.]

JC of MCGI said … You said: 2. Mary is actually the first believer and most steadfast in faith.

Bible says:

(Heb 11:1) Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

(Heb 11:4) By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

(Heb 11:5) By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

(Heb 11:6) But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

(Heb 11:7) By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

(Heb 11:8) By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

(Heb 11:9) By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

(Heb 11:10) For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

(Heb 11:11) Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

(Heb 11:12) Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

(Heb 11:13) These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

(Heb 11:14) For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

(Heb 11:15) And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

(Heb 11:16) But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

(Heb 11:17) By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

(Heb 11:18) Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

(Heb 11:19) Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

(Heb 11:20) By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

[WHAT A GROSS MISUSE AND ABUSE OF SCRIPTURE!!! We don’t have any problem with the verses you cited. It’s your wrong use of them that we don’t like.

In the Bible verses that you cited, is there anything that says that Mary is not the first believer (in Christ)? Which of these verses say that Mary was not steadfast in her faith? NOTHING. NADA. ZILCH.

Ang dami-dami mong talatang ginamit. Pero wala naman ni isa ang nagsasabi na si Maria ay hindi unang mananampalataya kay Cristo. Wala ni isa mang talata ang nagsasabi na si Maria ay hindi nagpunyagi sa pananampalataya. Katanuyan, ang silbi ng talata mo ay nagpapakita lamang na bukod kay Maria marami ang may pananampalataya ngunit hindi sinasabi kahit na minsan na ang Mahal na Birheng Maria ay walang pananampalataya at hindi nanatili sa pananampalataya. Kaya lahat ng sinabi mo ay sapantaha mo lamang na walang pinagbabatayan sa Biblia maging sa mga sitas na ginamit mo.]

JC of MCGI said … And with Bro. Eli, on what all you have said to him:

(Mat 5:11) Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

He (Bro.Eli) is blessed as well.

[Eto naman talaga ang lundoy mo na si Bro. Eli mo ay pinagpala. Puwede ba? Huwag ka ngang ipokrita. Tingnan mo nga kung mang-upasala, manungayaw at mang-usig sa aming mga Catoliko iyang si Bro. Eli mo. Alam mo ang Mateo 5:11 ay sa amin natutupad. Bakit? Aba’y pinagtutulungan ninyo kami. Sama-sama kayo ng mga Iglesia ni Cristo, Saksi no Jehovah, Sabadista, Born Again, at samu’t-saring Protestante. At kung anu-ano ang mga ipnantatawag ninyo sa amin.

Blessed ba kamo si Bro. Eli dahil inuusig? Batas ang umuusig sa kanya kaya siya nagtatago at hindi makauwi ng bansa. Ano ang sabi ng Banal na Kasulatan? “The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion” (Prov. 28:1). Pasukuin mo muna si Blessed Eliseo Soriano bago mo ipagbantog. Ang mga Apostol humarap sa paglilitis at nagpapabilanggo. Bakit di tularan ni Blessed Eliseo Soriano? Ang sabi ng Panginoong Jesus sa mga tunay na alagad na inuusig, The Bible says, “But before all this they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons, and you will be brought before kings and governors for my name's sake. This will be a time for you to bear testimony. Settle it therefore in your minds, not to meditate beforehand how to answer; for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which none of your adversaries will be able to withstand or contradict. You will be delivered up even by parents and brothers and kinsmen and friends, and some of you they will put to death; you will be hated by all for my name's sake” (Lk. 21:12-17). Hindi ito kinakitaan kay Blessed Eliseo Soriano mo.]

JC of MCGI said... May God open your heart Mr. Abe and all the readers of this blog.

[Our heart is open to God. Unlike you, a blind follower and believer in Blessed Eliseo Soriano. “This is what the LORD says: "Cursed is the one who trusts in man” (Jer. 17:5).]

If your objective in blogging is good, you will post all my comments as it is. Thanks be to God always.

[Our objective in blogging is good that’s why we post all your comments are they are – with bonus, our answers! Don’t be malicious in thinking that we don’t post your comments. They are even placed in the main wall. “Walang katutubong pagibig, mga walang paglulubag, mga PALABINTANGIN, mga walang pagpipigil sa sarili, mga mabangis, hindi mga maibigin sa mabuti” (2 Tim 3:3).]

September 30, 2010 5:02 PM