Jesus as the Good Shepherd. He looks robust here. Below is an image of Jesus dated 375AD in one of the Catacombs. Well, that is dark and rugged if you prefer that.-
This article, Father, is somewhat deceptive. The Veronica veil is nothing but a myth. It has no basis in fact and in the Scriptures that it depicts the face of Jesus. The Shroud of Turin is a fake, the official report has implied that. Besides, how could the shroud became the basis of the pictures of Jesus when the picture in the Shroud was only discovered recently (when a photographer looked at the photo negative)?
Jesus looked like a Palestinian peasant. That fact is borne by the fact that the authorities required Judas to identify him (i.e., he did not stand out in a crowd of peasants.) He should have looked dark (for staying out in fields) and looked rugged, not the effiminate guy in the photo. He should also look Middle Eastern, not the white, blue-eyed thin guy in the pictures, with delicate fingers.
- Fr. Abe, CRS said...
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[This article, Father, is somewhat deceptive.]
ON THE CONTRARY, IT IS YOU WHO IS SOMEWHAT DECEPTIVE ATEO. HE, HE, HE...
[The Veronica veil is nothing but a myth.]
A MYTH? CAN YOU PROVE TO ME SCIENTIFICALLY THAT THERE WAS NO WOMAN NAMED VERONICA DURING THE TIME OF JESUS WHO WIPED HIS FACE WHEN HE FELL ON THE GROUND? CAN YOU PROVE THAT? DO YOU HAVE THE LIST OF ALL THE WOMEN IN JERUSALEM THAT TIME?
NOT BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT SEEN A PARTICULAR WOMAN DOES NOT MEAN THAT THAT WOMAN DIDN'T EXIST. TRUTH AND REALITY DO NOT DEPEND ON YOUR EYES AND IN YOUR PERCEPTION. IF YOU DON'T KNOW THAT.
[It has no basis in fact]
HAVE YOU ESTABLISHED THE FACT EXISTING THEN. WERE YOU THERE? ARE YOU AN EYE-WITNESS YOU CAN CLAIM THAT THE STORY DIDN'T HAPPEN AND THERE IS NO BASIS IN REALITY? YOU ARE JUDGING AS IF YOU KNOW THE FACT PRESENT TO ME THE FULL FACT OF JESUS CARRYING OF THE CROSS FROM PILATE'S PALACE TO CALVERY, STEP BY STEP, INCH BY INCH AND LET ME SEE IF YOU CAN DO SO. I WANT YOU TO PRESENT IT SCIENTIFICALLY.
HOW CAN YOU CLAIM THAT THERE IS NO BASIS IN FACT WHEN YOU ARE IGNORANT OF THE FACT AND ARE NOT ONE OF THE EYE-WITNESSES.
[and in the Scriptures that it depicts the face of Jesus.]
HA, HA, HA... YOU ARE BECOMING HYPOCRITE HERE ATEO. IN OUR EARLIER EXCHANGES YOU REFERRED TO THE SCRIPTURES AS MYTH AS FAIRY TALE. NOW, YOU ARE USING IT AS A PROOF TO DENY VERONICA'S VEIL. HA, HA, HA...
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[ The Shroud of Turin is a fake, the official report has implied that.]
HA, HA, HA... THE OFFICIAL REPORT HAS IMPLIED THAT BUT THEY ARE NOT AS ILLOGICAL AS YOU TO CONCLUDE THAT IT IS FAKE. IMPLICATIONS STATES ONLY OF THE POSSIBILITY BUT NOT A FULL DECLARATION OF BEING FAKE AS YOU ARE DOING.
YOU SEE, THE MEMBERS OF THE PANEL OF EXPERTS WERE ALSO CAREFUL NOT TO GIVE A DOWNRIGHT REJECTION LEST THEY BE PROVEN WRONG LATER.
ON OUR PART, SCIENTIFICALLY NOBODY CAN EXPLAIN THE EXISTENCE OF THE 3 DIMENSIONAL IMAGE IN THE SHROUD. HOW CAN A MATERIAL THAT IS VERY OLD AND SO LARGE CAN SERVE AS A LIVING FILM NEGATIVE.
SOME SUGGESTED THAT IT IS INVENTED BY LEONARDO DA VINCI, YET THEY COULD NOT PRESENT A SINGLE WORK OF LEONARDO WITH THE SAME QUALITY. OTHERS TRIED TO REPLICATE THE SHROUD BUT WHAT THEY PRODUCED IS TWO DIMENSIONAL IMAGE AND NOT THREE DIMENSIONAL LIKE THE ONE IN SHROUD.
BESIDES, THE LINEN CLOTH USED TO BURY JESUS AND THE SAME LINEN CLOTH LEFT AT THE TOMB AFTER THE LORD'S RESURRECTION IS ATTESTED BY THE SCRIPTURES. YET, YOU STILL REJECT IT DESPITE THE TESTIMONY OF SCRIPTURES. ISN'T THAT HYPOCRISY? YOU PRETEND TO ACCEPT SOMETHING AS EVIDENCE FOR VERONICA'S VEIL YET REJECT IT AS EVIDENCE FOR THE SHROUD OF TURIN.
[Besides, how could the shroud became the basis of the pictures of Jesus when the picture in the Shroud was only discovered recently (when a photographer looked at the photo negative)?]
HA, HA, HA... YOU HAVE SHOWN YOUR HISTORICAL IGNORANCE HERE ATEO. THE SHROUD OF TURIN WAS FOUND TO BE BEARING THE IMAGE OF JESUS IN A FILM NEGATIVE MODE ONLY LAST CENTURY WHEN IT WAS TESTED BY CONTEMPORARY SCHOLARS. HOWEVER, HISTORICAL TESTIMONIES ON THE EXISTENCE OF SHROUD WERE CONSISTENT THAT THE SAME SHROUD PREVIOUSLY MANIFESTS THE FACE OF THE LORD. IT WAS VERY VISIBLE BEFORE. THAT IS WHY THAT PIECE OF CLOTH WAS FAMOUS EVEN BEFORE THE RISE OF MODERN TECHNOLOGY. IT WAS ALREADY CONSIDERED MIRACULOUS PRIOR TO MODERN PHOTOGRAPHY.
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[Jesus looked like a Palestinian peasant.]
JESUS IS A GALILEAN CARPENTER.
[That fact is borne by the fact that the authorities required Judas to identify him (i.e., he did not stand out in a crowd of peasants.)]
HA, HA, HA... YOU ARE FREE TO HALLUCINATE ON THAT. THAT IS A MERE IMAGINATION OR RATHER OPINION IF YOU PREFER. HE, HE, HE... I THINK THE REASON WHY THEY NEEDED JUDAS ISCARIOT TO IDENTIFY JESUS SO THAT THEY WILL NOT MISTAKEN HIM FOR SOMEONE ELSE. IN SHORT... TO BE SURE. HE, HE, HE...
THE EMPLOYMENT OF JUDAS BY THE PHARISEES IS MORE ON THE NECESSITY OF HAVING AN INSIDER ON THE WHEREABOUTS AND ACTIVITIES OF JESUS. WITHOUT AN INSIDER IT WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT TO CAPTURE SOMEONE WHO HAS MANY SUPPORTERS, A POPULAR SPEAKER AND FREQUENTLY SURROUNDED BY AT LEAST 12 CAPABLE MEN.
PEASANT-LOOKING OR NOT, A SPY WAS NECESSARY. THE CLOSER THE SPY THE BETTER. HA, HA, HA... PLEASE READ SOME OF SHERLOCK HOLMES, AGATHA CHRISTIE, P.D. JAMES AND UMBERTO ECO. HA, HA, HA... YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF INVESTIGATIVE SCIENCE IS VERY POOR.
[He should have looked dark (for staying out in fields) and looked rugged,]
JESUS IS A JEW AND JEWS ALMOST LIKE THE CAUCASIANS ARE STILL WHITE IN COMPLEXION IN COMPARISON WITH THE MALAY RACE DESPITE THEIR TANNED-SKIN.
BESIDES, YOU ARE BECOMING UNREALISTIC AND ILLOGICAL HERE, ATEO. WHO TOLD YOU THAT IN PAINTING THE PAINTER IS NECESSITATED TO CAPTURE EXACTLY THE TEXTURE OF THE ONE BEING DEPICTED? SOME ARTISTS CAN ALMOST IMITATE THE SKIN TEXTURE OF THE SUBJECT BUT MANY ARE NOT GIFTED BY SUCH TALENTS. NOT ALL ARTISTS ARE GENIUSES IN THE ARTS. AND, IT IS VERY LIKELY TO ATTAIN THAT IF THEY ARE DOING A PORTRAIT WITH THE ACTUAL SUBJECT PRESENT AS A MODEL. THAT DEMAND IS NOT VALID IF THE ARTISTS ARE NOT MAKING A PORTRAIT.
AS REGARDS, LOOKING RUGGED AND DARK. THERE ARE A LOT OF IMAGES OF JESUS LOOKING RUGGED AND DARK. BUT, YOU HAVE FORGOTTEN A BASIC 'ELEMENTARY FACT'. JESUS WAS TORTURED AND WAS LACKING OF FOOD AND DEHYDRATED WHEN HE DIED. HE LOST A LOT OF WEIGHT THEN DUE TO LOST OF SO MUCH BLOOD AND WATER IN HIS BODY. SO, THE RISEN LORD WHO ROSE FROM THE DEAD IS NOT A PICTURE OF A ROBUST MAN BUT OF A SLENDER, NEWLY TORTURED MAN. AND HE IS NOT DARK WHY? BECAUSE THE GLORY OF THE RESURRECTION WAS ON HIM. HE IS THEN SEEN BY HIS FOLLOWERS AS A LIGHT SHINING IN THE DARKNESS.
YOUR FAILURE TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT BASIC ELEMENTARY FACTS IS FATAL FOR YOU. JESUS IS NOT ALWAYS DEPICTED IN OUR SACRED IMAGES AS THE MACHO CARPENTER, HE IS ALSO DEPICTED AS A WOUNDED MAN, TORTURED MAN WHO HAS RISEN FROM THE TOMB. HE IS THEN VERY THIN, WOUNDED AND FRAIL LOOKING BUT EXUDING WITH GLORY OF SOMEONE WHO HAS TRIUMPHED OVER DEATH.
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[not the effiminate guy in the photo.]
OUR IMAGES OF JESUS ARE NOT SHOWING AN EFFEMINATE CHRIST. BUT A CHRIST WHO HAS SUFFERED MUCH, HE WAS SHOWING A TORTURED AND WEAK BODY, BUT GLORIOUS IN SPIRIT.
YOU FAILED TO SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN EFFEMINACY AND OUR MANNER ARTISTIC MANNER OF DEPICTING THE RISEN ONE WHO IS AS GENTLE AS A LAMB.
[He should also look Middle Eastern, not the white, blue-eyed thin guy in the pictures, with delicate fingers.]
THE JEWS ARE ALMOST LIKE THE AMERICANS AND THE EUROPEANS. JESUS IS NOT FROM THE MIDDLE EAST. THE MIDDLE EASTERNERS ARE THE ARABS. JESUS IS NOT A PALESTINIAN ARAB BUT A PURE-BLOODED JEW. HIS LOOK IS SIMILAR TO THAT OF THE PEOPLE OF THE WEST.
CONCERNING THE FINGERS. THE DEPICTION OF THE FINGERS OF THE LORD IN OUR ICONOGRAPHY AND IN OUR PAINTINGS ARE MADE SUCH BECAUSE OF THEOLOGICAL REASONS. ARTS ARE MADE WITH IDEAS AND PHILOSOPHY AS WELL IF YOU ARE NOT AWARE OF THAT. THE LORD'S FINGERS DENOTES THE WEAKNESSES OF THE FLESH IN CONTRAST WITH HIS STRENGTH IN SPIRIT. THE HANDS OF THE LORD SUFFERED THE CRUELEST TORTURES. IT IS BUT PROPER TO DEPICT THEM AS THINNED RATHER THAN THE COMMONLY ROBUST. THOSE HANDS ARE COMMONLY SHOWN AS POINTING TO HEAVEN WHICH MEANS REMINDING PEOPLE THAT THERE IS GOD IN HEAVEN AND THAT THERE IS LIFE AFTER DEATH. MOST OF THE TIME THEY CONVEY BLESSINGS AND BLESSINGS ARE PROJECTED BY A GENTLE, LOVING HAND, NOT BY A ROBUST POWERFUL HAND.
IN SHORT ATEO, YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF OUR CATHOLIC ARTS IS SHALLOW AND SUPERFICIAL.
FINALLY, IF YOU WILL READ AGAIN THE POST ABOVE ON THE SACRED IMAGES OF CHRIST OUR DEFENSE OF THE DESCRIPTION OF CHRIST IS NOT PRIMARILY DEPENDENT ON SHROUD AND VERONICA'S VEIL BUT ON THE LIVING TESTIMONY OF COUNTLESS PEOPLE WHO SAW HIM, LIVED WITH HIM AND LOVED HIM DURING HIS STAY HERE ON EARTH.
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