REFUTING A DATING DAAN MEMBER ON PRAYER, Part 1 by Bro. Marwill Llasos, O.P.

The Blessed Virgin Mary in Orans position. Icon in Kiev.

Bro. Marwil N. Llasos said...

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "PANALANGING PAULIT-ULIT, LABAG BA SA BIBLIA?":

Anonymous said…

may i comment on here, i hope it will posted and not be ingnored. heres my comment:

[Comments are welcome here as long as they are respectful and are made in the spirit of truth. Your comments are not ignored.]

Anonymous said… First and foremost, we should know the meaning of the word “prayer/s” in the Bible. The Bible says:

(Php 4:6) Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

(Php 4:7) And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

So, prayers according to St. Paul is a REQUEST to God with thanksgiving. Jesus says to his apostles, whatever they will ask to God in his (Jesus) name, God will give it to them.

[Prayer of REQUEST or SUPPLICATION is only one type or kind of prayer in the Bible. And there are many types of prayer though. So your view of prayer is severely limited to one kind only and doesn’t do justice to all the others taught in the Bible. I am afraid that your view of prayer – as one merely of request or supplication – is very transactional. While in itself is not wrong, as in fact it too is taught in the Bible, singular emphasis on it results in lopsided relationship with God. You pray because you want something from Him. The focus is more on what you get from that relationship – and not what you give.]

Anonymous said…

(Joh 16:23) And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

(Joh 16:24) Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.

To summarized, prayer is a request and asking something to God with thanksgiving, in Jesus name.

[The Bible verses you cited are all beautiful and the Catholic Church fulfills them even long before your new church was established. However, your summary that prayer is only request and asking something from God is incomplete and inaccurate. That is a very self-centered, if not selfish, view. It has to be balanced by other forms of prayer taught by the Bible. Adoration, praise, thanksgiving, meditation and contemplation. The Catholic Church practices all these forms. It seems that your church has not taught you these gauging from your limited perspective on prayer].

Anonymous said…

Jesus taught us how to pray.

(Mat 6:9) After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

(Mat 6:10) Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

(Mat 6:11) Give us this day our daily bread.

(Mat 6:12) And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

(Mat 6:13) And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

[The Catholic Church, as well as early Christians (the Didache) pray the Our Father often. It is known as the Lord’s prayer. We pray it because the Lord commands us in Matthew 6:9, “Let this then be your prayer: Our Father in heaven …” (Bible in Basic English).]

Anonymous said...

Above manner, I have not seen any repetition. But if you’re going to pray this per se, same and same regardless of cases, I believe that is repetition.

[As you said it rightly, that is just your belief. And so what if that is repetition? Those are the words of the Lord Jesus. Can we improve on the words of the Savior Himself? I don’t think so. The Lord’s Prayer is a thoroughly complete form of prayer because it possesses all kinds – adoration, praise, thanksgiving, supplication, etc.

It’s not the repetition of the words that counts. It’s not how we repeat it that matters. It’s how we MEAN it that is important. Each time it is prayed, regardless of the cases, it acquires a different meaning because, being the inspired words of the Lord, it’s richness is inexhaustible.

Jesus is our master in prayer, our teacher. When He gave us that prayer, we take His word for it. We don’t presume to know better than Him and certainly we are never arrogant to claim that we can have a better version of His words. We cannot improve on the words of Our Savior.]

Anonymous said…

Hail Mary and The Creed is not a prayer but story telling.

[Again, your limited view of prayer is manifest. What’s wrong with story-telling? You gotta produce a verse that prohibits it. Mind you, story-telling is another form of prayer. Don’t you think so? If I pray and tell God what happened to me during the day, am I not telling Him a story? If I reveal to God in prayer my hurts and frustrations and tell Him how it went, would it not be telling a story? Would God begrudge me if I tell Him stories? He is a loving Father and He definitely delights in the stories of His children. I wonder why your pastors don’t teach you that. They are shortchanging you.

Let’s take the Hail Mary. You call it story-telling? That’s an inaccurate description, borne perhaps by your anti-Catholic prejudice and bias. Nevertheless, let me tell you something about Hail Mary.

The Hail Mary consists of two parts. The first part is a recitation of Scripture. “Hail [Mary], full of grace, the Lord is with you” (Lk. 1:28). “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb [Jesus]” (Lk. 1:42). These are inspired words of Scripture. When we recite it, we ponder on these words found in the Word of God. Is recitation and meditation of the Word of God outlawed in your Church? If not, why then condemn the Hail Mary, especially its first part ?

The second part of the Hail Mary is merely asking Mary to pray for us. That is a request for intercessory prayer. Is intercessory prayer banned by the Bible? I don’t think so.

So, there you have the Hail Mary! Far from story-telling, it is a recitation and meditation of God’s Holy Word and a request for Mary, an eminent Christian, to pray for us – an intercessory prayer.

[What about the Creed? It is not storytelling but our profession of Faith, as St. Paul instructs us, “let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering” (Heb. 10:23). With the Creed, Catholics are in “one faith” in which with “the mouth confession is made unto salvation” (Rom. 10:10). St. Jude tells us to “contend for the faith that is once and for all delivered to the saints” (Jude 3). The faith that is once and for all delivered to the saints may be found in the Apostles Creed.

The Creed has it’s counterpart in the Shema of the Old Testament People of God: “Hear, O Israel: The Lord Our God is one Lord” (Dt. 6:4). Deuteronomy 26 informs us that the Lord God instructed the Israelites that when they speak to Him, they should narrate the wondrous works He has done for them (Dt. 26:5-9). Read the verse for yourself. Then you’d realize that that’s story-telling precisely.

Christians on the other hand recite the twelve articles of their Faith contained in the Apostle’s Creed. One of the earliest creedal formulations is found in 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 which now forms part of the Apostle’s Creed. All the twelve articles of faith found in the Creed are Biblical. They are the synopsis of what the New Testament people of God believe and proclaim in which “we all come in the unity of the faith” (Eph. 4:13).]

Anonymous said…

The worst is, members of catholic give the burden to Mary to pray for them now and forever. It is our obligation to pray to God.

[I want to pity you for your gross ignorance of Scripture here. Is it ever a burden to pray? Is that what you are taught in your church? God forbid! Your church is anti-Biblical.

It is never a burden to pray. Our Christian life must ever be rooted and nourished in prayer. In Luke 18:1, the Lord Himself tells us, “to pray always without becoming weary.” Why do you then consider prayer as burdensome? If it praying does not and should not weary us Christians here on earth, all the more that Christians in heaven, like Mary, will never be weary of it. There is just no justification, Biblical or otherwise, to your anti-Christian belief that prayer is a burden.

Catholics don’t burden Mary by asking her to pray for us now and at the hour of our death. It is by the Lord’s explicit command that prayer should not weary anybody. And it is also the Bible’s categorical teaching to “pray without ceasing” (1 Thes. 5:17). Here, your objection falters on two Biblical grounds: (1) no one should ever weary in prayer, and (2) to pray without ceasing.

I am also aghast by your lack of any idea of what heaven is like. Your eschatological milieu is totally bankrupt. Pray, tell, how can those in heaven be ever burdened and tired as you claimed that we give Mary the burden to pray for us? Can those in heaven still experience exhaustion, weariness or burden? If you say yes, you don’t know heaven at all where “there is no hunger or thirst” (Rev. 7:16) or any other limitations and privations that we do suffer and experience here on earh. “"No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him” (1 Cor. 2:9)]

Anonymous said…

Referring to Biblical meaning of prayer, Psalm 136 and Revelation 4:8 are not prayers but PRAISES to GOD! David acknowledges the power of God and praises Him. Same thing did by the four beast, they give glory, praises and thanksgiving to God day and night.

[Again, your view of prayer is severely limited. There is such a thing as prayer of praise and the examples in Psalm 136 and Revelation 4:8 are just examples. You have to heal your understanding of prayer and broaden your Biblical worldview of prayer. You are missing a lot of things. I wish we can share with you the great treasury of prayers of the Church, which are all taught in God’s Word. There are just so many kinds of prayer taught in the Bible– and you have absolutely no idea what these are.]

Anonymous said…

Let us always remember this passage:

(Pro 15:8) The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright is his delight.

[I say Amen to that! The various forms of prayer offer by Catholics who are upright are delightful to God. These include adoration and praise, thanksgiving and supplication, intercession and so much more. Yours is merely one of supplication, a very narrow and transactional view of prayer with the purpose of getting something from God. Know this: even publicans, Pharisees, and evil men pray to God to Him for something. And it seems to me you are in good company.]

September 23, 2010 1:26 PM